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The debate that was announced for George H. Cramer and myself at Paducah, Kentucky to begin on March 8, took place and continued six nights.
As Mr. Cramer is a new one on the battlefield against the truth, I have decided to give a few of his efforts to argue the question. He says that baptism and the Lord's Supper were both carnal ordinances and could not be observed for spiritual purposes; that they were Jewish in their nature; that the Passover of the Jews was that which the apostles observed as the Supper. He says that the baptism of John was the ceremonial cleansing of the Jews, and that was the only water baptism ever given. He said that no Gentile was ever commanded of the Lord to be baptized with water. He says that the expression "keys" in Matthew 16:18 shows that Peter had more than one key. One was the gospel to the Jews that did have water baptism in it "for the remission of sins," the other was the Gentile key, or the Gentile gospel, that had no baptism or Lord's Supper in it. He talked much about a reformation law, and said it was to take place under Paul, who was an apostle to the Gentiles and who was not sent to baptize (I Corinthians 1:17). He affirmed that Paul was a non-ordinance preacher. He tries to make his contention plausible by appealing to dates in chronology, endeavoring to show by these that all ordinances passed out when the reformation came through Paul. He is easily met on this, as the Bible shows many baptized after he locates his reformed law. Also the apostle Peter's statement that "baptism doth also now save us" (I Peter 3:21, A.D. 60-68)
Mr. Cramer is not a strong debater and never answers arguments. He says the same things in the negative or affirmative. He is 5 years old and has had many debates. He does not like to meet the same man twice. Bro. Jesse T. Love of Pensacola, Florida sent me some valuable notes as he had previously met him. Brethren, if you meet Cramer in debate, I'll be glad to send you my notes.
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A. O. Calley vs George H. Cramer (Non-ordinance Church)
April 8, 1909
Paducah, Kentucky
(By A. O. Calley)
April 8, 1909
Paducah, Kentucky
(By A. O. Calley)
The debate that was announced for George H. Cramer and myself at Paducah, Kentucky to begin on March 8, took place and continued six nights.
As Mr. Cramer is a new one on the battlefield against the truth, I have decided to give a few of his efforts to argue the question. He says that baptism and the Lord's Supper were both carnal ordinances and could not be observed for spiritual purposes; that they were Jewish in their nature; that the Passover of the Jews was that which the apostles observed as the Supper. He says that the baptism of John was the ceremonial cleansing of the Jews, and that was the only water baptism ever given. He said that no Gentile was ever commanded of the Lord to be baptized with water. He says that the expression "keys" in Matthew 16:18 shows that Peter had more than one key. One was the gospel to the Jews that did have water baptism in it "for the remission of sins," the other was the Gentile key, or the Gentile gospel, that had no baptism or Lord's Supper in it. He talked much about a reformation law, and said it was to take place under Paul, who was an apostle to the Gentiles and who was not sent to baptize (I Corinthians 1:17). He affirmed that Paul was a non-ordinance preacher. He tries to make his contention plausible by appealing to dates in chronology, endeavoring to show by these that all ordinances passed out when the reformation came through Paul. He is easily met on this, as the Bible shows many baptized after he locates his reformed law. Also the apostle Peter's statement that "baptism doth also now save us" (I Peter 3:21, A.D. 60-68)
Mr. Cramer is not a strong debater and never answers arguments. He says the same things in the negative or affirmative. He is 5 years old and has had many debates. He does not like to meet the same man twice. Bro. Jesse T. Love of Pensacola, Florida sent me some valuable notes as he had previously met him. Brethren, if you meet Cramer in debate, I'll be glad to send you my notes.
VIEW NEXT REPORT >>
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